When queried by judge, chatbot had less faith in its output than expert witness who used it


Technology

When queried by judge, chatbot had less faith in its output than expert witness who used it

When confronted with evidence that an expert witness used a chatbot to cross-check lost-value calculations, a judge in Saratoga County, New York, decided to query the source. (Photo illustration by Sara Wadford/ABA Journal)

When confronted with evidence that an expert witness used a chatbot to cross-check lost-value calculations, a judge in Saratoga County, New York, decided to query the source.

“Are your calculations reliable enough for use in court?” New York Judge Jonathan Schopf asked Microsoft Copilot, a generative artificial intelligence chatbot.

“When it comes to legal matters,” the chatbot replied, “any calculations or data need to meet strict standards. I can provide accurate info, but it should always be verified by experts and accompanied by professional evaluations before being used in court.”

Schopf also asked Microsoft Copilot to calculate the value of $250,000 invested in the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund from Dec. 31, 2004, through Jan. 31, 2021. He posed the question on three different computers and got three different answers: $949,070, $948,209 and $951,000.

Ars Technica covered Schopf’s Oct. 10 decision.

Schopf “found that Copilot had less faith in its outputs than [the expert witness] seemingly did,” Ars Technica concluded.

The expert testified for a trust beneficiary who said a Bahamas rental property should have been sold as an estate asset in 2004, rather than by the trustee in January 2022. During that time, the trustee, the beneficiary’s aunt, had sometimes traveled to the property, combining upkeep with vacation use.

The property sold for $485,000 in 2022, netting $323,721 after operating losses. The son had contended that he could have invested the sales proceeds if the property had been sold earlier.

Citing inherent unreliability issues surrounding AI, Schopf concluded that lawyers have a duty to disclose its use and the evidence that it generated. The courts should then have a hearing to determine whether the evidence can be admitted based on general acceptance in the relevant field.

Schopf commented on the chatbot use, despite saying the son failed to prove that his aunt breached her fiduciary duties. And if she had breached her duties, the son failed to prove damages, the judge said.

Ars Technica spoke with Eric Goldman, an internet law expert, who told the publication that attorneys retain expert witnesses for their specialized expertise.

“It doesn’t make any sense for an expert witness to essentially outsource that expertise to generative AI,” Goldman said.

The case is Matter of Weber.





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Overturning 45-year precedent, New Jersey gives disbarred lawyers second chance


Ethics

Overturning 45-year precedent, New Jersey gives disbarred lawyers second chance

Former New Jersey lawyers who are disbarred will in most cases be allowed to apply for reinstatement after five years, the New Jersey Supreme Court has decided. (Illustration by Sara Wadford/ABA Journal/Shutterstock)

Former New Jersey lawyers who are disbarred will in most cases be allowed to apply for reinstatement after five years, the New Jersey Supreme Court has decided.

The New Jersey Supreme Court’s Oct. 15 order and determination reject the approach that it adopted in a 1979 case that imposed automatic and permanent disbarment for knowing misappropriation of funds. Now, lawyers disbarred for misappropriation, as well as lawyers disbarred for other reasons, can apply for readmission in five years as long as several conditions are met.

Law360 and Law.com are among the publications with coverage.

New Jersey now joins 41 other states and the District of Columbia in allowing disbarred attorneys to seek readmission. Most of those jurisdictions allow an application for reinstatement after five years.

But not every lawyer can apply for reinstatement in New Jersey. The state supreme court retained the authority to impose permanent disbarment in future egregious cases and to block successive applications for reinstatement for particular attorneys, according to an Oct. 15 press release on the new admission process.

The path back to a law license won’t be easy. Lawyers seeking readmission must meet several conditions, including requirements that they prove fitness to practice law, that they take and pass the New Jersey bar exam and the Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination, that they complete specified continuing legal education courses, and that they file a statement of restitution paid to former clients and a client protection fund.

The New Jersey Supreme Court acted on a recommendation of the so-called Wade Committee, also known as the state supreme court’s Special Committee on the Duration of Disbarment for Knowing Misappropriation. It is named for lawyer Dionne Larrel Wade, who was disbarred after a random audit showed that she sometimes took money from her client trust account to pay bills. She always repaid the money, however, and she had no prior discipline.

Wade had represented underserved clients and was honored for her pro bono work.

“Everything I’ve done in my life was to become an attorney and to help people,” Wade told the ABA Journal in a December 2022 article.

The New Jersey Supreme Court’s opinion disbarring Wade convened the special committee to evaluate whether disbarment should always be permanent. Twenty-one of the committee’s 28 members recommended a path to readmission.

New Jersey Supreme Court Chief Justice Stuart Rabner commented on the readmission decision in the press release.

“Going forward, New Jersey’s legal system will have a robust and fair review process that not only protects the public but also affords disbarred attorneys, who have taken appropriate steps, a chance to practice law again after five years,” Rabner said.





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The Power of Pro Bono: A fair hearing, respect and justice for all



Irene walked into the office of a young lawyer in a small town in Mississippi more than 40 years ago with an eviction notice and a two-page lease. Events that would follow turned the lawyer into a legal aid attorney and a believer in the power of pro bono legal work.

Irene was devastated at the prospect of losing her home in a rundown trailer park on the edge of town. She had fallen behind on rent. She had always caught up in the past, but this time, the landlord was not listening. Her eviction was imminent.

When Irene walked into the courthouse later that day, the landlord was stunned to see that she had a lawyer. The attorney showed the court that the owner had failed to give proper notice to evict Irene, and he vowed to sue for damages over the horrible condition of the rental property and trailer park. The landlord settled with Irene and with three neighbors who came to the court when they learned that Irene had legal representation.

Irene’s case showed the attorney, who went on to become a bestselling author of legal thrillers and an advocate for legal aid, the power of practicing law to help people. When you show up to represent someone who cannot pay, everything changes. They get respect and a fair hearing.

A veteran struggling with emotional scars after a terrorist attack on his unit in Beirut showed another attorney the power of providing legal assistance. The veteran’s mental health spiraled downward after he found himself near the Sept. 11, 2001, attack in New York. Legal aid helped the veteran get previously denied benefits, so that he could remain in his home, get a job and put his life back together. That case left a lasting impression on the attorney who went on to become the current and longest-serving board chair of Legal Services Corp.

These are our stories as we mark the National Celebration of Pro Bono in October and the 50th anniversary of the LSC—which supports 130 legal aid organizations providing legal representation for low-income people in every corner of the United States. Many lawyers have such stories about their pro bono service—volunteer efforts that expand the ability of civil legal aid to help low-income income people get a fair shake in court.

This added resource for civil legal aid is badly needed. A 2022 access-to-justice gap report from the LSC found that low-income Americans received no or insufficient legal help for 92% of their civil legal problems in 2022.

Evictions, like Irene’s case, and other housing issues dominate legal aid caseloads today, making up 39.5% of the cases closed by the LSC grantees in 2023.

Legal aid also helps low-income people find protection from domestic violence, get fair treatment around consumer and financial issues, and get access to public benefits, including benefits for veterans.

Attorneys have a responsibility to share their skills, knowledge and time to ensure that the justice system works for everyone, including people like Irene, her neighbors and the veteran. Legal aid organizations rely on attorneys to offer their pro bono services to help close the justice gap.

While we have a lot to celebrate in the 50 years of the LSC’s history, we have a long way to go in the struggle to ensure justice for all Americans.


John Levi is Senior Counsel at Sidley Austin LLP and board chairman for the Legal Services Corp. John Grisham, an attorney and a bestselling author, serves on the LSC’s Leaders Council.


ABAJournal.com is accepting queries for original, thoughtful, nonpromotional articles and commentary by unpaid contributors to run in the Your Voice section. Details and submission guidelines are posted at “Your Submissions, Your Voice.”


This column reflects the opinions of the author and not necessarily the views of the ABA Journal—or the American Bar Association.





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What Filevine’s new AI tool could mean for the future of depositions


When Filevine unveiled its Depo Copilot in September, it sent shock waves among those in the legal technology sphere.

The generative artificial intelligence tool is not just designed to transcribe depositions. It looks for inconsistencies. It suggests questions to ask. It analyzes the transcript in real time to see whether there are issues that have to be cleared up or areas of weakness to address.

In other words, it’s like having another attorney in the room—only one who’s capable of digesting large amounts of data and analyzing it quickly.

In this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Alex McLaughlin, the vice president of product at Filevine, talks to the ABA Journal’s Victor Li about about Depo CoPilot, as well as issues relating to generative AI and what it means for the future of depositions. Filevine is a software company specializing in cloud-based case management for the legal industry.

Want to listen on the go? Legal Rebels is available on several podcast listening services. Subscribe and never miss an episode.
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In This Podcast:

<p>Alex McLaughlin</p>

Alex McLaughlin

Alex McLaughlin is the vice president of product at Filevine—a software company specializing in cloud-based case management for the legal industry—innovating on designing Filevine’s artificial intelligence products, as well as traditional case management features that make law firms more efficient and profitable. McLaughlin comes from a technical background working as an IT director for a plaintiff and mass tort practice and previously has worked on some of the largest cases in the country.





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Law firms cut compensation for some partners, freeing up cash for high performers


Law Firms

Law firms cut compensation for some partners, freeing up cash for high performers

Law firms are cutting compensation for some partners because of reduced productivity or impending retirements, a contrast from more collegial days. (Image from Shutterstock)

Law firms are cutting compensation for some partners because of reduced productivity or impending retirements, a contrast from more collegial days, according to consultants who spoke with Law.com.

“In the white-shoe days, it was unheard of to move somebody down” the compensation ladder, said Matthew Bersani, a founding partner of the Cliff Group, a legal consulting company, in an interview with Law.com.

Now, he estimates, about 10% to 20% of partners in a firm in any given year are seeing a reduction in shares or “points” reflecting ownership amounts.

Other consultants differed on the percentage of partners at firms seeing less compensation. Consultant Blane Prescott told Law.com that it is not unusual for 20% to 30% of partners to see compensation cuts.

But partners making less money are sometimes transitioning out of law practice because of retirements, said Kristin Stark, a Fairfax Associates consultant.

“Are firms still making difficult performance management decisions? Yes, they are. In some firms, you’ll still see 20% or so go down. But some of that will be driven by retirements,” she told Law.com.

Stark said downgrading partner compensation was more common during the financial crisis in the late 2000s and at the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Now, good economic times are helping lower performing partners.

“With the uptick of law firm performance in recent years, there’s been some of what we’d call a peanut buttering of compensation,” involving spreading the money, Stark told Law.com.





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Supreme Court orders reconsideration of appellate decision on youths carrying guns


U.S. Supreme Court

Supreme Court orders reconsideration of appellate decision on youths carrying guns

The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday told a federal appeals court to reconsider its decision that blocked a Pennsylvania ban on youths openly carrying guns during a state of emergency. (Image from Shutterstock)

The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday told a federal appeals court to reconsider its decision that blocked a Pennsylvania ban on youths openly carrying guns during a state of emergency.

The high court vacated the decision by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at Philadelphia and directed it to reconsider in light of U.S. v. Rahimi.

In the June Rahimi decision, the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on gun possession by those who are subject to domestic-violence restraining orders.

The 3rd Circuit ruled in January that youths who are 18 to 20 years old are among the people protected by the Second Amendment, and they can’t be barred from openly carrying guns during a state of emergency.

Pennsylvania requires people carrying concealed firearms to be at least 21 years old and to have a license. Those who want to openly carry guns are generally allowed to do so. But in states of emergency, they must have a license, or they must qualify under other exceptions. The practical effect of those laws is to ban those who are 18 to 20 years old from openly carrying guns during states of emergency.

When the suit was filed, Pennsylvania had been in a state of emergency for nearly three years because of the COVID-19 pandemic, the opioid addiction crisis and Hurricane Ida.

CNN and Bloomberg Law have coverage of the Supreme Court’s order in the case, Paris v. Lara.





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